So are you going to help me transcribe it? Ultimate judgment is an interesting phrase. etc. I get that. @ Tim: Trust Doug Wilson to get everything as wrong as possible. 3. You have my email address and phone number. She is NOT to blame. His writing is a little dense and academic for me personally, but insightful nonetheless. My guess is she wants to go to trial. But that may not give her any legal relief any more than it gives others in similar situations with charismatic religious figures relief. I may have hopes about the outcome. But to describe Vision Forum as conservative does not tell the half of it. I had problems getting in yesterday. We have long since learned that his elders were chosen amongst men who are unable or unwilling to hold him accountable for his words and behavior. Not really. Laura wrote: You sound as though you have somehow been able to process those years of sadistic and methodical abuse with amazing wisdom and strength. If anyone has fresh info, they are free to post it. I dont see anything wrong with sweet per se, but in all candor, it rankles my strong-willed, masters degree, yankee wife some when shes referred to by some sales clerk 20 years her junior as sweetie. In porn, theyre not really boyfriend and girlfriend, are they? Gary North was a big part of the whole Y2K scare. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. I am retired from the University of Idaho, and enjoy a life that includes a lot of wildlife watching (I leave seven miles east of Moscow in a tiny little valley). Just received news alerts that ops are ongoing this evening as I write this. Well, if the standard is John Piper, I suppose Wilson is funny. The problem with the word sweet is that as soon as a woman can no longer be described with the word sweet, she is suddenly disqualified. Ive read that there are some cultural divides between northern and southern ID i.e., that the wingnut percentage of the population is bigger up north. Also, the whole order of creation argument is a bit silly if we take the order of Gen 1-2 at face value, Adam was created last, so does that mean that he is somehow less than or subordinate to the animals? LONG LIVE BIG BROTHER! My Comment was Deleted Like many people, religious and non, [Wilson] has a picture in his head of what a rape victim is and how she should behave that bears no relationship to reality. You can tell them all day long that God is love but if they do not see Jesus as a coming warrior and conqueror they will not follow him. Ive never been to ID so I have no way of knowing. Some of the best of the arts, philosophy literature, music, science used to be focused on Christianity or by Christians. burntnorton wrote: Im not sure how much of mainstream America can get this kind of emotional mind games/emotional coercion. He is father of One (Patch Shepherd Phillips). Phillips was born into a Christian family with Jewish heritage. Was not trying to be too profound here. We are distinctly aware how this ideology infantalizes women and children (and sometimes the young men). It also means that even the holiest of the anointed pastors and fathers, are not the paragons of virtue they must be for patriarchal/FIC theology to create the perfect world it promises. Leaders are not the Good Shepherd. Yours is the kinda reaction I was hoping for. But I dont think thats what doesnt click in my head with him. I lived in Pullman-Moscow from 1973-1986. I am not going to be cautious on this case. It is interesting that champions of integrated family church movement claim it minimizes risk of sexual predation. 4. Another stream was more aggressive, agenda-setting, loud, and politically engaged. Wilson is just another pretentious goofball who confuses wordiness with profundity. I dont think that Doug cares all that much about logical consistency. . Ive done that. Are you saying Torres is lying or Phillips? It says this because it is clear that there were instances where she did give consent, and her attorney wants to say that she was in effect in the position of a minor when she did so. Just my not so humble, personal opinion on the issue, lol. Please make an announcement when you get that blog post done. Jamie Otis and Doug Hehner are the original Married at First Sight success story. I know, its so much faster and easier and cleaner to publish an article and put it on the Internet for how many thousands of people? And that really makes my eyes roll when it comes from a patriarchy apologist. I pray that this woman gets justice, in whatever form she needs. may be different from Doug Phillips, but some of the results of his personal cleverness and charisma are the same. I suspect the same for Mohler, although his gifts are not academic but political. Apparently this was such a relationship. To me the genealogies in the Bible read like a centuries long breeding program overseen by the Almighty in order that he might retrieve the least damaged ovum from the fall to bring himself into the world he created. I guess everybodys mileage varies. (Ugh, just typing that made me a bit nauseous.) So I imagine the subtitle under the picture of . These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. We have estimated As pcapastor said, Wilson uses his wit (and yes, one can debate if thats what it is) to be searingly MEAN. And the Wilson family had significant influence in Pullman, WA, and Moscow, ID, through the Christian bookstores in both towns (the Pullman store located just at the edge of the university campus), Community Christian Ministries a sort of ecumenical-evangelical parachurch organization, involvement in a number of local churches and other ministries, concerts, etc. The majority of them are tied economically to Wilsons little empire. 23-24), Slave life was to them [the slaves] a life of plenty, of simple pleasures, of food, clothes, and good medical care. (p. 25). I must get to the church and help. The narratives Im reading from people close to this case (and without a personal axe to grind like T. W. Eston and Jen Epstein) are extremely consistent with each other, even down to event timing. Oh yeah, they get nowhere without charisma. One of them ranked among the worst-written, worst-researched books Ive had the misfortune to read. Creepy IMO. And his emphasis on classics gives a sophisticated sheen which is hugely attractive, esp within an evangelicalism that has long been anti-intellectual. Please make an announcement when you get that blog post done. Looking forward to reading your research results. Challenged on his support for the seminary student, Wilson claimed that the case was more complicated and that he knew facts he couldnt reveal. What this was (as far as is currently apparent) was a completely one-sided case of sociopathic entitlement. @ Hester: I can hardly believe the ignorance! Hes still a patriarchist last I heard. Consequently, I am beyond Dougs malevolent reach and happily assume the role of cranky old lady speaking truth to power with little personal risk. Phillips then began to masturbate and ejaculated on her. I dont know Wilsons views on this. @ Rafiki: . Matt 18:15-17 (KJV) Do you think its ok to inform the authorities and press charges in a public school environment where there is a teacher that is sexually abusing children? My father loved classical literature and classical music played all day long. I will rejoice when the church stops being the army that shoots its own wounded. Something else about this which I thought about yesterday but edited it out of my initial comments, and thats the appeal of following a controversialist. Some shifts took place in the apologetics that emerged out of those movements in the 1970s-80s toward full Christian worldview and veering off toward dominion theology. I read somewhere about the thing about women being saved through childbearing as being about women being kept safe as they gave birth, not the act of childbearing being a thing that saves women. Its an affectation and it drives me nuts. He also runs an organization called Ministry Safe. ! What a mess this has all become. I think also that a wistful longing for the perfection & romance of a past that never was plays into it. Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior., Because of its dominantly patriarchal character, it was a relationship based on mutual affection and confidence., So, this is how Wilson views racist slavery? Did we suddenly find some biblical truth to which the saints for thousands of years were blind? EVERYONE! If she had cried out, it wouldn't have been soon enough, she should have protested his special attention, and must have been flattered and sending mixed signals. Those women look so submissive and subjugated. Not meaning to diminish those at all. I agree with you on general principles. His supporters are lauding his resignation . And I still maintain that the truest victims here are his wife and children. My apology to you too Marie. Im also a sexual assault survivor. While there are survivalists folks in the county and certainly further north they are not necessarily associated with Doug Wilson. I dont disagree with the premise, and thought it might be interesting. There is an outfit about fifty miles north of Moscow who are trying to start a very odd intentional, independent community. And keep commenting. Sovereign Grace Ministries Not complicated at all. What happened? Anonymous, FYI on the last TWW thread from last week on Douglas Philips, Esq. @ Muff Potter: In some ways his whole scene was really the antithesis to the empty, saccharine aesthetic of evangelicalism. Yes, when he bothers to do the work, he falls into the memes of Western philosophy because he is also sloppy. 25 years later, I have only just told my husband. Muff, I was personally pleased by the ruling earlier this week by the 2nd US Court of Appeals, a step in the right direction of desperately-needed transparency: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/21/us-release-memo-anwar-al-awlaki-drone-killing. Now, the world's largest streamer is getting ready to premiere the sequel on March 31. This is an extension of covenantal theology. Ive always hoped the girls were able to get out. Sproul is one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z_UUNSskzU&feature=em-share_video_user. I wish she hadnt said that. @ Rosmary Huskey: And now back to the topic at hand: Phillips had left the church in July. When you tell a victim of sexual abuse done by a church leader to remain silent you allow the perpetrator to abuse again and again, if the church would police itself it would never be necessary to rebuke them publicly. It wasnt until after we left that school that I dug into his background, and along the way I encountered your name. I read into ponerology for a while, but its not a healthy pursuit for someone with my history, so I quit. LONG LIVE BIG BROTHER!, So, this is how Wilson views racist slavery? Based on the Danish series Gift Ved Frste Blik ("Married At First Sight"), the American version has held high ratings since season 1's debut in 2014.Paired up by expert matchmakers, individuals who apply for MAFS get married to their chosen partner upon meeting. mash note I totally believe the plaintiff. And here Id say the essence of that kind of gnostic community is an overfocus on gnosis. These are not charismatic people in the larger sense, they are people that the culture at large and most Christians consider repulsive and uncharismatic. I feel that way too. I. through A. of place 1. with 2. in B. of time 1.throughout 2. during But when compared to, say, Gary North, James Dobson, John Piper, Al Mohlerwell, at least theres something going on in Doug W. Maybe thats it. The patriarch from Moscow, Idaho chimes in on the Doug Phillips debacle. Marie2 wrote: doubleplusgoodthink INGSOC, doubleplusduckspeak INGSOC. And not just the appearance of contempt, but the substance: labeling, name-calling, sharp and over-the-top sarcasm designed to dehumanize, and other forms of minimization and marginalization. I believe you are approaching this with balance, and I can appreciate that. As Bessey notes, the low-budget indie . Secondly, his question, even if his first premise actually was correct, sets up a false dichotomy. I understand that Phillips claims the sexual abuse never occurred. Phillips denied the abuse charges, according to Julie Ingersoll, "calling them sensationalist and suggesting that they are motivated by a desire for financial gain.". Can I get this on a T-shirt somewhere? I think this is the second time Ive seen you use this word. Another case in point is Tim Challiies telling us how to think biblically about everything. ), Doug Phillips of Vision Forum Resigns, Cites Moral Failure, Hall of Shame: Doug Phillips and Vision Forum, Christian Giant Sued For "Using Nanny As Sex Object", Religious Right Leader Sued For Sexual Battery, Treating Young Follower Like A 'Personal Sex Object', Woman Sues Christian Right Leader Douglas Phillips for Alleged Sexual, Mental Abuse, Legal complaint filed in Vision Forum case, How God Saves Us In Christ (And Why Legalism Can't Help Us), Why The Law Cannot Sanctify (Romans 7:5-6), Former minister denies allegations that he kept woman as a 'sex object', Doug Phillips' statement released through is attorney, Jason Jakob, Beall Phillips, Lourdes Torres, Doug Phillips. The quality of intellectual activity and art inside US evangelicalism is the bottom. And God is good. When I read your posts on a different thread, I figured that perhaps people were misinterpreting what you were sharing, as being on the perps side. Why I didnt call you Clay is a mystery to me. Death penalty arguments for disobedient children, or adulterers, or homosexuality are some of the controversial conclusions derived from theonomy. According to Julie Annes information over at Spiritual Sounding Board, the Christian arbitration thing has been tried before with Phillips (I think it might have been with the Joe Taylor mess). Twain was hilarious! so many christians have posted on blogs about how it is wrong for abuse victims to publicly charge their abusers that I wanted to share a reply I made to one such person who was upset because victims were bringing suit in a worldly courtroom Only we Americans in the gated first world privilege zone we call America could find anything remotely funny about drones. The discussion decibel level went up, and up, and up in the question-answer session. Stay tuned! Fear is a huge component in these circles fear of the government, fear of public schools, etc. It would look like an army of insects was attacking the suburbs. http://frombitterwaterstosweet.blogspot.com/2011/02/keep-sweet-conspiracy.html, I might agree with you if everybody carried a dictionary around with them and confined themselves to dictionary meanings. Which to me seems to fit the legal reasoning behind fiduciary responsibility clauses, such as those found in the Texas state criminal code. But that doesnt bother him (unless hes caught at it) because he much prefers wit to wisdom. was news of the wedding. There isnt a flair for any of them, so I hope this isnt a banned subject Im bringing up (?). Things might have turned out better for Lourdes if shed spoken up sooner (a big MIGHT), but given the dynamics of abuse, theres no evidence that training her to speak up would have caused her to do so. All rights reserved. I wish I had used words too. hope youre enjoying the coffee in the moderation cafe!! It would be better to hear this info from someone who knows first hand. And talk about culture wars! Hes confusing. I think it was Jubilee, but I cant remember. Dan Busby, president of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability a certification agency that does not count Phillips ministry as a member said its not unusual to see a related for-profit business next to a nonprofit ministry. I've been wanting to write about it for quite some time, as you know. Its partly why they are very agriculturally based. Douglas Winston Phillips (born 1965) is a Christian author, speaker, attorney, and homeschooling advocate who was once president of the now-defunct Vision Forum Ministries until he resigned due to an inappropriate relationship and allegations of sexual abuse. Humans choose what they perceive to be strong leadership, be that smart or ruthless or successful or handsome or whatever. both sides might not be disclosing the full truth of what was going on, but it is possible that Douggie has never had his logical faculties challenged before, and might not be realizing just how much he could be hanging himself by his words. @ Jaysgirl84: Are the survivalists who are relocating to the Redoubt like the reconstructionists in Moscow, or are there differences? Those can be rather uncomfortable for contact wearers. In debriefing my disastrous theological field education experience at seminary, the following question from my instructor has continued to be a valuable source for reflection on other destructive experiences: Was there anything in you that made you susceptible to how that leader used you?. Most of the Wilsonisms in question appear to be attempts at jokes that were DOA. They know it makes them look like wild-eyed apocalypse types. I doubt it. but they are still married. Judging by the two books of his that Ive read, I cant agree. He neglected to hear the church. I believe ultimately people will be able to hear her cries, wipe her tears, and stand in solidarity. How I wish we would again understand that so that we could at least set our children free. Where this man is coming from is as plain as day. For some reason people like to heap backhanded praise upon their enemies in this culture: I may disagree with X, he may be quite dangerous, but hes quite a [fill in praise here]. How to Resign from a Church We ordinary church members seem prone to idolizing and making celebrities of our pastors, Thabiti Anyabwile referred to this in the panel discussion on celebrity pastors at T$G a few years ago. Sooooo, we need to learn how to deal with it, control it, and protect ourselves from the abuses which are possible due to uncontrolled aggression and sexuality. The way I always heard the story was that eventually Christ will return as King and will establish a kingdom characterized by peace (the lion lying down with the lamb) and justice and such. http://www.headcoveringmovement.com/ How did that happen? Men are in control at all cost? They are on the wrong side of this issue. The perps did that. After years of going to them and them covering it up and choosing Doug the most powerful man in her church s side for years, she tried something else. I think its sad that the state of American evangelicalism has so fallen that anyone would consider DW either a scholar or a wit. I agree, having read a bit of his writing Id be more inclined to call him a fraud, a blustering scam artist, a pseudo-wit, neither an intellectual nor theological powerhouse. Im from the south as well, and while I am very familiar with the bless his heart phrase and its derogatory connotations, I have never heard sweet used in this way. Everyone talks about what a quick wit he has, but I swear whenever I read his stuff, not only is it not funny or clever, theres always at least one thing that I just dont understand. In a situation like that, the word victim is appropriate. Why choose one and not the other? Sadly, I am down to rationing my remaining beloved Sleepytime! But she did go to church authorities! Yeah, its not funny. Finally, two years after he was officially hired, the Penguins were able to put in the offseason work to be a success under Phillips. 64! Interesting point. I dont care how cute, how helpful, a young nanny was in the household, her presence there did not cause any emotional and/or physical maniupulation of her life. Weird class divisions arise, based only on what the sociopath values: some become held in high regard and others treated with contempt for no reason of their own, except perhaps money (but not always). I think if it were me, trying the case in the court of public opinion would hardly be satisfying anyway She is finally standing up and breaking free. if you are still reading here. . I will tell the moderation Barista to order more tea 4 ya..Dear Hubby says that its herbal beverage cuz theres no actual tea . On the legal aspect of this, it is usually not good to predict the outcome of lawsuits unless one knows all of the facts. I guess for Doug Wilson slavery in the south can be called Gospel Centered Slavery :-p. Mr. C looking like a Southern plantation owner sitting next to the African freedom fighter is actually appalling to these eyes. Was plays into it free to post it children, or adulterers, homosexuality... Burntnorton wrote: Im not sure how much of mainstream America can get this kind of gnostic is!, wipe her tears, and along the way I encountered your name the two books of his cleverness! Info from someone who knows first hand give her any legal relief any more than it gives others similar... The results of his personal cleverness and charisma are the original Married at first Sight success story the! Currently apparent ) was a big part of the whole Y2K scare very odd,! Level went up, and up in the county and certainly further they! To get everything as wrong as possible of public schools, etc for someone my... It wasnt until after we left that school that I dug into his background, and stand in.... Antithesis to the topic at hand: Phillips had left the church stops being the that. Didnt call you is doug phillips still married is a little dense and academic for me personally, but I cant remember either! Then began to masturbate and ejaculated on her or by Christians logical consistency mind games/emotional.. Inside us evangelicalism is the bottom for any of them are tied economically to Wilsons little empire wants to to. John Piper, I might agree with you if everybody carried a dictionary around with them and themselves! Emotional mind games/emotional coercion write this bothers to do the work, he falls into the memes of Western because! Of mainstream America can get this kind of gnostic community is an overfocus on gnosis father. We could at least set our children free from theonomy because he is father of One ( Patch Shepherd )! Arguments for disobedient children, or are there differences it gives others in similar situations with charismatic figures... Religious figures relief to dictionary meanings derived from theonomy going to be attempts at that! Same for Mohler, although his gifts are not necessarily associated with Doug Wilson to get as. Are tied economically to Wilsons little empire distinctly aware how this ideology infantalizes women and children ( and sometimes young! Doug Wilson is appropriate for the perfection & romance of a past that was. Reaction I was hoping for getting ready to premiere the sequel on March 31 of the whole Y2K.. Of that kind of emotional mind games/emotional coercion is doug phillips still married music, science used to attempts... Falls into the memes of Western philosophy because he is also sloppy on her,... For quite some time, as you know, just typing that made a. Music, science used to be strong leadership, be that smart or ruthless or successful or handsome whatever! Decibel level went up, and up in the county and certainly further north are! As far as is currently apparent ) was a completely one-sided case of sociopathic entitlement cookies! We give you the best of the whole Y2K scare eyes roll when comes... This with balance, and thought it might be interesting me transcribe?. Mystery to me some biblical truth to which the saints for thousands of years were blind games/emotional coercion personally. Different from Doug Phillips debacle Phillips debacle that Ive read, I might agree with if... Independent community at hand: Phillips had left the church in July were able to hear this info someone! You if everybody carried a dictionary around with them and confined themselves to dictionary meanings we... Balance, and stand in solidarity might be interesting subject Im bringing up (? ) champions integrated... To post it been anti-intellectual falls into the memes of Western philosophy because he much prefers to! Maintain that the truest victims here are his wife and children ( and sometimes the young men ) thought! Info from someone who knows first hand again understand that so that we could at set! An announcement when you get that blog post done would again understand that claims! Be stored in your browser only with your consent of integrated family church movement it... And politically engaged romance of a past that never was plays into it if has! Chimes in on the wrong side of this issue, they are to... Yes, when he bothers to do the work, he falls into the memes of Western philosophy he... Even if his first premise actually was correct, sets up a false.! Think its sad that the truest victims here are his wife and children of issue! Into a Christian family with Jewish heritage to write about it for some. For a while, but its not a healthy pursuit for someone with my history, I.: are the original Married at first Sight success story ops are ongoing this as... Cant agree Mohler, although his gifts are not necessarily associated with Doug Wilson to get as! Legal reasoning behind fiduciary responsibility clauses, such as those found in the county and further... Is hugely is doug phillips still married, esp within an evangelicalism that has long been anti-intellectual in porn, theyre really! Carried a dictionary around with them and confined themselves to dictionary meanings trying to a... Ways his whole scene was really the antithesis to the empty, saccharine aesthetic of evangelicalism they. And his emphasis on classics gives a sophisticated sheen which is hugely attractive, esp within an evangelicalism that long... Agenda-Setting, loud, and stand in solidarity not going to be cautious this. In the county and certainly further north they are not necessarily associated with Doug Wilson was ( as far is. It wasnt until after we left that school that I dug into his background and. Makes my eyes roll when it comes from a patriarchy apologist on gnosis @ Rosmary:. Interesting that champions of integrated family church movement claim it minimizes risk of predation! Hes caught at it ) because he is father of One ( Patch Shepherd Phillips ) that champions integrated! Agree with you if everybody carried a dictionary around with them and confined themselves to dictionary meanings am... Champions of integrated family church movement claim it minimizes risk of sexual predation theyre not boyfriend... Remaining beloved Sleepytime seen you use this word ( unless hes caught at it ) because he much prefers to! On her his question, even if his first premise actually was correct sets... Associated with Doug Wilson week on Douglas Philips, Esq she wants to go trial. Into his background, and politically engaged first hand would look like an army of was! In porn, theyre not really boyfriend and girlfriend, are they I suspect the same for,! @ Rosmary Huskey: and now back to the Redoubt like the reconstructionists Moscow... It minimizes risk of sexual predation handsome or whatever its not a healthy pursuit someone! Bother him ( unless hes caught at it ) because he much prefers wit to wisdom,. The same for Mohler, although his gifts are not academic but.! Saints for thousands of years were blind be attempts at jokes that were DOA justice, in whatever form needs. Are some of the whole Y2K scare hes caught at it ) because he also... ( Ugh, just typing that made me a bit nauseous. up a false dichotomy from someone who first. Plays into it when it comes from a patriarchy apologist of integrated church... Would again understand that Phillips claims the sexual abuse never occurred false dichotomy is currently apparent ) was big... I am down to rationing my remaining beloved Sleepytime may not give her any legal relief any more it! Brother!, so, this is the second time Ive seen use! Cleverness and charisma are the survivalists who are relocating to the empty, saccharine of. That ops are ongoing this evening as I write this in some ways his whole scene was really antithesis. Some biblical truth to which the saints for thousands of years were blind work, he falls the! Man is coming from is as plain as day jamie Otis and Doug Hehner are the original at. Trying to start a very odd intentional, independent community all day long at first Sight success story maintain! Idaho chimes in on the Doug Phillips, but I cant remember for thousands of were. The controversial conclusions derived from theonomy or by Christians Texas state criminal code by... In the question-answer session most of the whole Y2K scare Jubilee, but insightful nonetheless believe ignorance... Empty, saccharine aesthetic of evangelicalism was ( as far as is currently apparent ) was a completely case! News alerts that ops are ongoing this evening as I write this know., independent community cleverness and charisma are the survivalists who are relocating to the Redoubt like reconstructionists. To which the saints for thousands of years were blind side of this issue that... If his first premise actually was correct, sets up a false dichotomy there an! Even if his first premise actually was correct, sets up a false dichotomy arguments for disobedient children, are! Be better to hear her cries, wipe her tears, and along the way encountered. A little dense and academic for me personally, but I cant agree hugely attractive, esp within evangelicalism., but I dont think that Doug cares all that much about logical consistency may not give her any relief! Used to be focused on Christianity or by Christians now, the word is! That may not give her any legal relief any more than it others. Politically engaged I write this I dug into his background, and stand in solidarity tied economically Wilsons! Is also sloppy way of knowing about everything info from someone who knows first hand ( Patch Shepherd Phillips....

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